English 3332 students:
For our blog of Friday, April 8, please post a comment of at least two well-developed paragraphs about the topic of American salesmanship and the delusions/myths it is sometimes founded upon in the conversation Willy and Howard have at the New York office of Howard's firm, at which Willy works as a traveling salesman: First watch this 9-minute clip: link for the beginning of Act II
After you post your comment, please reply in one well-developed paragraph to at least one of the other students' comments.
Reminder: Monday's reading assignment is Flannery O'Connor's "A Good Man Is Hard to Find" (1011-24).
Have a great weekend,
Prof. K
As Willy recalls the first salesman he knew, an 85 year old man who gave him hope in salesmanship, he reminisces about the greatness of selling, saying that this man showed him that selling is “the greatest profession in the world”. He speaks about the “personality,” “respect,” and “comradeship” that comes with sales. He tells Howard about this 85 year old man who was still working with dignity and making lots of money, even in his old age. Willy romanticizes how people viewed the man, stating that he was extraordinarily well-loved, which was demonstrated by the huge turn-out at his funeral.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly enough, we know that Willy is longing deeply to believe this misrepresentation of the life of a salesman. However, in his core, he knows that this is opposite to his life: he is not that well-liked, he is making no money, he has no respect, and he’s stuck breaking his back for no reward and no chance of moving up. Ironically, after he tells this story, all hope he had for that kind of glorified life is gone. His boss tells him that it’s over; Willy is fired. While American salesmanship can be romanticized into a reputable profession where there’s always hope of a big commission, many salesmen are treated as pawns in the corporate world’s game of chess.
I enjoyed your observations of Willy's romanticizing of the old salesman he used know. You can definitely tell that he begins his moments of nostalgia with optimism like he was just beginning his career and by the end, he realizes that it is his end. He wants to be the well-known and loved salesperson that he may or may not have seen in that old man, but, because of his own choices and those out of his control, he is just another human cog in Howard's company that has run it's course and outlived its usefulness.
DeleteYour point about Willy's romantic idea of salesmanship contrasted with the reality of his unfortunate present circumstances is reflective of the disillusionment of the profession in the eyes of Americans. People are beginning to notice the monopolization of businesses and the corporate greed in business. Willy, however, is stuck in the past, and therefore is crushed by this reality without ever accepting it.
DeleteThe entire conversation between Willy and Howard is littered with the diction of a sales pitch from both sides. Bargaining and redirecting are used by the men to conceal their true desires and intentions. Howard uses the “just business” approach to try and silence Willy with objectivity. Howard believes that it is only a job to Willy and that he can understand. Being a salesman is more than business to Willy, it’s a way of being somebody important. It gives credence to his character and bolsters his pride. His notions that salesmen are the pillars of society have been disproved as he sits at the mercy of his former boss’ son.
ReplyDeleteWilly enters the office as a proud man, flaunting money that he doesn’t have and connections that are now lost. As the scene progresses and he is ignored and belittled, such as in his life, he becomes more desperate and reveals more and more of his situation. He is a man fighting the feeling that he made the wrong decisions in his life. His demands for his new job and pay quickly slide, but only enough so that he can keep up the façade of a salesman. His reliance on the past and the promises made to him by his current boss’ father back in 1928 when he (perhaps exaggerating) “averaged $170 a week” convince Howard that he has become a broken man. Willy is no longer profitable to Howard, and sentiment aside, he drops him from his pedestal that had already had the legs pawned off of it long ago.
I really did like the way you mentioned that being a salesman in important and crucial to Willie's character. It really is. He thinks that being well-liked and a good salesman will give him the recognition that he so desires from everyone.
DeleteI like how you mentioned the word choice being used between both characters! I didn't even think about how persuasive their language towards one another was.
DeleteIn the beginning of Act II of Death of a Salesman, Willie meets with Howard, his boss, in hopes that he will be able to secure a job in New York, so he will no longer have to travel long distances. Howard is dismissive toward Willie and pays him little attention. Willie is old, and barely useful. He’s probably only there at the firm still because he was with Howard’s father.
ReplyDeleteWillie believes that because he was once Howard’s father’s employee, Howard owes him the same kind of loyalty. Willie also believes that because Howard’s father would have given him that kind of deal to work in New York that Howard owes him the same kind of respect, but that is just not so. Willie finds out, and harshly so, that promises really do not mean too much in the business world as Howard says he is unable to give Willie a job in New York.
I think Howard was completely callous to WIlly's need for support from the company. But I can also see the business side to Howard's response to WIlly's outburst. I completely agree that Howard's actions where harsh and unsympathetic.
DeleteThere is a contrast between Howard’s business attitude and Willy’s want for recognition. Willy continues to live in the past, with his wistful aims to be known wherever he calls. This is echoed in the adoration of his salesman idol. However, Howard reflects the myths American salesmen have acquired over the years. Though he is only acting out of business instinct, there is little honor in his actions. He appears to be callus to Willy’s apparent desperation and degradation of his mental capabilities. This reflects the myth that salesmanship isn’t about hard work (a quality Willy values) or simply helping someone out.
ReplyDeleteBecause of corporate greed and a salesman’s natural instinct to excel, the illusion of a grand conqueror that is welcomed and revered is created and there is a drive for more sales, more commission. Because it is revealed that for Willy, after all the back-breaking time he spent working for the company, there is no ultimate reward or even care outside of his position as a salesman. Howard is driven by monetary gain which echoes our stereotypes of sly and dishonest salesmen. This is a disillusionment of Willy’s belief that it is an honorable, masculine, and honest career that would provide him with security and self-fulfillment.
I agree with the contrast between Howard's attitude and Willy's recognition. Willy is trying so hard to be the best salesman around but Howard is constantly putting him down, but I do feel like Willy lost his touch. Basically Howard is doing him a favor by paying him to do nothing.
DeleteFor as long as I've known, the idea of American Salesmanship has been glorified highly. In the movie, Willy idolized a man that created so much wealth through his sales. This 85 year old man is seen as an all-knowing man to Willy.
ReplyDeleteIn reference to this, Willy strives to be the salesman he once idolized, but still comes up short. Not being able to support his family, and attempting to commit suicide several times, Willy finally comes to terms with his own definition of being a successful salesman once his boss fires him. In terms of this time period, industries were booming because of salesmen, concluding in many aspiring to be the ones making lots of money. This movie illustrates how having the title of selling things isn't all that it's cracked up to be.
I liked how you linked his personal failures to his failure as a salesman. It's a good comparison that showcases how Willie's career became a part of his identity. He worked so long as a salesman that it wound its way into his personal life with his family and friends. When he fails at his job, he realizes he also failed his family and friends.
DeleteBeing a salesman is all that Willy has ever known. When Howard is consistent in letting Willy know that he is done, Willy does his best to sell himself back to Howard. Howard doesn’t understand how broken Willy is about not being able to provide for his family. For Willy this job represents the respect, friendship, and gratitude from others and from the company. But all that Howard sees id the competition of this dog eat dog business and the apparent hardship that Willy is enduring, but for Howard this is his business.
ReplyDeleteBeing a travelling salesman was difficult in this day, they worked far away from home and earned hardly any money. I think it is right that if Willy had worked for the company for thirty-four years then he does deserve some compensation, but Howard does not care how his father would have handled the situation. Howard understands his business and he knows that Willy is a liability and he would be losing money to keep Willy employed.
I agree with both of your points. It is very evident that Willy attempts to sell himself back to Howard once he realizes Howard is ready to let him go. It is also true that Howard is only concerned about the money he makes, he is not concerned with the well-being of his employees (at least the older ones). I also stated that Willy is a liability to Howard's company but I do agree that he should have received some sort of compensation for being loyal to his company for so long.
DeleteHoward's view is very much "dog eat dog," and that is an injustice for Willy. (I miss-spelled Willy in my post- too many family members with that name) But yes, Willy expected some accommodation for his many years of loyalty to the company, and he was met with complete rejection and forced retirement. It proves that being "known" and "liked" is not an advantage in the sense that you will be taken care of, but that there will be a deeper level of isolation and fear when faced with the unknown at an advanced age.
DeleteThe entirety of salesmanship is portrayed in the scene between Willie and Howard very well. Willie wants to discontinue traveling and stay in town as a salesman. Willie pitches this idea as if he were selling it to Howard. Howard then sells the fact that he simply doesn't have any space for Willie yet. Willie begins to get angry and loses his cool and yells at Howard. The stress of his job finally gets to him and he loses the sale pitch as well as his job.
ReplyDeleteBeing a salesman is really all that Willie knows. It is his way of being, rather than his job. It's his lifestyle. He uses sales pitches with his family and friends and it constantly in sales mode. His profession took over his life. The clip also shows the problem of seniority. Howard is the son of Willie's old boss and while Willie serves under him, he feels as if he really is in charge. The American idea of salesmanship took over Willie and wound itself in his identity.
Your analysis of the conversation itself is pretty interesting in that respect. I saw it merely a man asking an old friend for a job, but the metaphor angle and insight into Willy's "pitch" of the job request is intriguing. I rewatched the clip and it really is true that Willy is attempting to sell the idea, only building on it when Howard says no until he finally snaps, essentially turning away his potential customer.
DeleteI find it interesting that Willie is not only always speaking in sales pitches, but he is usually selling a product he does not believe in. Howard can see right through the lies about how well Willie's sons are doing as well as through the exaggerations of Willie's past achievements. This is ultimately what kills Willie (metaphorically and literally): his refusal to accept the truth about himself and his family combined with his inability to sell himself on a story which deep down he does not believe.
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ReplyDeleteThroughout their conversation in the office, two underlying delusions really made themselves relevant, the first being the common myth that having the right connections can get you anything and anywhere. In the very beginning of their meeting, it becomes clear through Howard's initial friendliness that he and Willy have a long history, which Willy elaborates on with his story of how he helped Howard's father decide on his name. When Willy eventually requests a job from him, though, Howard's attitude shifts around, completely disregarding all their familiarities and refusing his request.
ReplyDeleteProbably more noticeable and more important, though, is the idea that every man is owed his keep. During Willy's rant about Howard's father, he brings up his past success as a salesman, earning substantial amounts of money every week at one point, which Howard only denies. He also reminds him of an old mentor who was highly successful and deeply respected in their line of work, as well as promises that both Howard and his father had previously made to him, asserting his belief that he has done enough over the course of his long career to earn this one favor from him. Again, Howard only refuses him a position under the alleged notion that there are none to offer him, denying it when Willy questions whether or not his reasons include doubt in his ability to sale.
I like that you used the words "connections." Willy did have a connection with Howard's father. Unfortunately, his son is not him, and they do not share the same relationship that Willy and his father had. Howard's friendliness in the beginning shows that he has some relationship with Willy, but not a "connection"-- at least not enough to risk the success of his company just to secure a job for him. Willy isn't useful/profitable anymore, and Howard isn't willing to risk it for him. "Connections" only work if they are with the right people, unfortunately, not their sons. :P
DeleteI like that you spoke about connections in the scene. You bring a different idea that, Willy feels like just because he has known Howard's father and has been there for a long time he should be placed higher than all the other workers but Howard helps him realize that he is not his father and it will not be that easy for him anymore.
DeleteSalesmen are vibrant, able-bodied men with purpose and energy. Unfortunately, Willy no longer represents these qualities. Although, he believes that because he once portrayed the ideal salesman that he should still receive the same treatment as he did years ago. Willy is meeting with Howard, in this Act, to discuss a job in New York to prevent him from travelling. Howard enters the office confident that this meeting will work in his favor. He thinks he knows who he is to the business world, how long he has been there, and what he deserves. He soon finds out that he is wrong, unfortunately, and his desperation begins to show.
ReplyDeleteHoward, who is not as good to Willy as his father was, shuts Willy down. Howard is trying to sell himself, like the salesman he is. He thinks he is well-liked and deserves loyalty because of how long he has been there, and he expects the same treatment from Howard that he got from his father. However, that's not reality. In all actuality, they need someone who is profitable and useful, regardless of how long he has been there and the relationships he once had. His usefulness, along with his relationships with Howard's father, are long gone.
I like how you describe how willy personally no longer fits the persona of the salesman image. He's older, should be close to retirement. Its a good point, and that probably explains why Howard's son is in the office position, because he brings a younger fresher energy to the business. Maybe that's where willy is lacking in success, not in his mental health, but the fact that he has gotten too old for the business perhaps.
DeleteWilly describes how being a salesman was something glorious in the beginning. He fantasizes about how much money he would make, and how he could make a impact and be remembered by people, especially if he was a traveling salesman. we are fast forwarded 35 years later in New York. Willy is pleading to Howard, The son of a man whom Willy worked for and brought in so much money for, for a better paying position.
ReplyDeleteI think its critical when we are looking at how salesman were exalted in the American Culture in the 30s 40s and 50s. But the magic is lost once reality sets in, because what happens when you don't meet those high standards, your job could be a jeopardy, or in willy's case, your mental health is a stake. Willy has ultimately seem to have lost himself in the glorified image of
American salesmanship
I like how you mentioned that the effects of him failing at his job has caused him mental stress. I can definitely see how any job can cause mental stress, but in Willy's circumstances it is even greater.
DeleteA big part of the movie can be seen in just the beginning of Act II. Throughout the whole movie Willy is eager to work and continue in the business of salesmanship. It has been his whole life and he has spent 34 at the company even working with the boss prior, Howard's father. He is fighting to be respected and the chance to stay in New York to work but is constantly belittled by his mental health.
ReplyDeleteHoward is constantly degrading him in the scene because he believes that Willy is not capable of going on the trip. He constantly calls him "kid" in a superior manner. Howard tries to get away from him saying that he has other people to meet and tells him that he does not want Willy to be the one representing the firm. He brings up his sons and advises that Willy quit his labor and get them to work instead.
I thought this too, the fact that Howard has the audacity to call an elderly man "kid" several times over is so deameaning. Also, the fact that he wants Willy to depend on his son's income, shows his inability to truly care how Willy makes a living.
DeleteThe whole conversation between Willy and Howard is based on their desire to be rid of one another. Willy would not even be in Howard’s office if his father was still alive, because that man treated him with dignity and respect, unlike his son Howard does. Obviously stated, Howard wants Willy out of his business. Regardless of whether Howard has room for another businessman like Willy on his floor or not, he would not allow Willy to work for him any longer. The fact that Howard took so long to tell Willy represents his dishonesty in business, which is a trait that does not belong in salesmanship.
ReplyDeleteWilly states he wanted to become a salesman because of the 84 year old man who encouraged him. This man, in his old age was still selling merchandise in thirty-one cities over the phone in his green slippers. Willy tells Howard selling had to be the greatest profession because what is better than being 84, still making an honest living while being loved and remembered? This delusion Willy has is the reason he is so ill-tempered in his old age. His life of sales has not added up to his idol’s, the reason he came into the selling business. Willy is no longer remembered or loved by his buyers and it breaks his heart. Therefore, the delusion he created as a young man has caught up with him over time.
I agree with your response to a point, but I must admit that I do not view Howard's actions as harshly as you do. It seemed to me that he hung on to Willy as long as he could, even though he obviously did not need him, out of respect for his father and respect/pity for Willy. While it might not have been the best decision for him to make, I believe that Howard was not intentionally being dishonest or cowardly, he just did not know what to do with Willy.
DeleteThroughout the scene, it is obvious how great the disillusion about salesmanship is within Willy's mind. To him, being a salesman is the greatest career a man can have. He tells Howard the story of the old man he met, the reason he chose to go into sales, and that when that old man died, tons of salesmen went to his funeral. Silly feels that he will lose his dignity if he isn't able to be a great salesman like that man and instead is forced to go to his sons for money. It seems to me like his career as a salesman is directly linked to his pride and self-worth.
ReplyDeleteHoward and Willy share very contrasting views about the company. While Willy believes that he should remain a salesman due to his history with the company and the promise Howard's father made to him many, many years before, Howard instead wants to do what is best for the company in terms of skill and what will get him more profit. Willy cannot understand that in his mind he has made himself grander and more valuable than what he truly is, and cannot see what Howard and everyone else see.
This play is grappling with the tension between networking and profits. Willie is unable to come to terms with the fact that despite the fact that he has not risen in the firm in spite of many years service and several years seniority over his boss. The idea that the younger should serve the older and that people who have been invested longer should be promoted faster is often untrue in the business world.
ReplyDeleteFirst, Willie is conflicted because his previous boss's son is now his new boss. It hurts his pride to have Howard's son in a position of authority over him, especially considering Howard's patronizing attitude, which he displays be calling Willie "kid" instead of showing him the respect usually given to those older than oneself. Thus, the myth that age is a predictor of position is de-bunked.
Second, Willie is subscribing to the myth that persons who have been with a company longer should be the first to be promoted. While this is sometimes true, it is often not. Willie is in denial about the fact that the loss of his salary is a result of his increasing inability to fuflfil the requirements of his job. What Willie fails to realize is that while previously people operated on the basis of friendships and service records, in the modern business world the old are frequently pushed out to make way for the young, all in the interest of profit. Thus, the myth that tenure of service is what determines promotions is de-bunked in favor of the modern reality that profits are often more important than people.
The life and death of a salesman in represented in this scene. There is life in both Willy and Howard's tone at the beginning of the scene. Willy attempts to persuade Howard to let him stay with the company without traveling as much if any at all. Willy is passionate about this plan and hopes to instill that passion in Howard. However, Howard is preoccupied with showing off his new toy and trying to talk Willy into buying one, when he knows the salary Willy must live on.
ReplyDeleteThe death of a salesman is seen when Howard crushes Willy's dream to stop traveling and work from the home office. Howard completely dismisses the conversation his Dad Frank and Willy had when Willy was younger. He does not care that Willy will no longer be able to provide for his family if he does not have a job. All Howard sees Willy as is a liability towards his company. Willy realizes this when he states, "You can't eat the orange and throw the peel away. A man is not a fruit." I loved that Willy related his situation to a piece of thrown out fruit because that is exactly what Howard is doing to him.
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ReplyDeleteThroughout the movie, Willy is honored to be the salesman he has been for 34 years. While hes been there, Howard, the new boss who is the old bosses son, is constantly rejecting his offers to be a better salesman and up his pay. Howard is demeaning his pride and suggests him to quit his job due to his mental health.
ReplyDeleteWilly tries to stay in New York to continue to work, but Howard doesn't think Willy is capable anymore. The American salesman is loyal and useful but his pride has gotten him too deep into the job that he lost himself. The only suggestion Howard has for Willy is to make his sons work and he rest with his family for the time he has left with them.
In the office scene, Willy and Howard face a true stalemate. The constant interruptions brought an even greater sense of urgency for Willy, and added to his frustration. Being a salesman, for Willy meant that he not only represented the company, but embodied it. This career had become his identity and he had given thirty-five years of his life to that company. This total devotion to that trade and that company resulted in a delusional and mythical idea of the self. He viewed himself to be part of a brotherhood, a togetherness where he was “known” and “liked.” He relied on the integrity of hand-shake promises to enforce a false sense of security. Willy expected, due to his long-term employment with the company, that his personal needs would be met. He assumed he was indispensable, and that his importance and long-standing loyalty would inherit accommodations.
ReplyDeleteThe reality of Howard’s “dog eat dog” view on the individuals that work for him, shook Willy. Howard’s focus is on the profit. The job must be executed, items must be pushed, profit must be made, and everyone is replaceable. The scene ends with Howard leaving Willy alone in the office to “collect his-self,” and Willy was left to consider his age, mortality, and ultimate fate. The idea of big business and the notion that “if you can’t do it, someone else can” creates tension and disconnect between honor and loyalty to a company, and honor and loyalty to oneself. Willy is left to ponder the question: What happens when your identity as a key player, as someone of great importance, is challenged or completely diminished
In the beginning of Act II we see Willy confidently enter Howard’s office in hopes that he can stop traveling for work because he is aging and tired. However, Howard is dismissive of Willy from the start. He has no regard for Willy’s time and keeps interrupting him and delaying the confrontation of the conversation Willy needs to address. Willy is confident he will get what he wants simply due to the years that he has put into the company however, that is simply not the case.
ReplyDeleteHoward attempts to put it as gently as he can that Willy is no longer profitable to the company, he’d wish that Willy would rest already and have his two strong sons care for him now in his time of need. But Wiily has pride. He reminences of how salesmanship used to be, where they purpose, comnradery and respect. Being a salesman is more than just a job for Willy, it defines him as a man. But, deep down he recognizes that he has none of those qualities of this “ideal salesman,” now. he is not respected, or purposeful any longer and his seniority is not enough for him to continue.